God’s Nature: What Does He Look Like?

Have you ever questioned the LDS belief that God’s “eternal spirit is housed in a tangible body of flesh and bones”? As a Mormon I never questioned this teaching—it seemed that the Bible clearly supported it. After becoming a Christian I discovered that this doctrine was unique to Mormonism. And, the Christian churches I attended taught other things about the nature of God that didn’t make much sense to me. So I decided to dig into scripture to find out the truth. With my new-found faith I had a strong resolve to be like the Berean’s—to search the scriptures and make sure that whatever I was told agreed with God’s truth. (Acts 17:11)

Underlying the LDS belief that God has a body of flesh and bones is the doctrine that God was once a sinful man, subservient to an earlier god: “Explain that since the restoration of the true Church of Jesus Christ in the latter days, Church members have known of their origin and destiny as children of God. A latter-day prophet, Lorenzo Snow, summarized this teaching clearly when he said, ‘As man is God once was; As God is, man may be.” (Aaronic Priesthood Manual 2, Lesson 1, page 1)

But searching the scriptures I quickly discovered that the words of this LDS prophet were false. The Prophet Isaiah wrote: “Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.” “Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.” (43:10, 44:6)

Learning that God could never have been a man still didn’t explain to me what God “was”. I wondered what He looked like. I had been taught that since I was created in God’s image, then God must look like me. But reading in Genesis confirmed that this “image” could not be a “physical” one—I was a woman, not a man. I decided to read all the passages referenced in the LDS Topical Guide about the body of God to see if any had been miss-interpreted. To my surprise, they hadn’t. These passages clearly taught that God had the physical characteristics of a man. They attributed God as having a face, mouth, voice, fingers, hands and feet. Wanting to learn more, I started doing word studies. When I found another passage saying that God had a hand as well as ears, I wondered why this passage hadn’t been listed in the LDS Topical Guide. Reading in context answered my question and led me to a surprising discovery! Not only did God have ears, He had wings and feathers:

I have called upon thee, for thou wilt hear me, O God: incline thine ear unto me, and hear my speech. Shew thy marvellous lovingkindness, O thou that savest by thy right hand them which put their trust in thee from those that rise up against them. 8 Keep me as the apple of the eye, hide me under the shadow of thy wings” (Ps 17:6-8).

He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust. 3 Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence. 4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.” (Psalm 91:1-4)

From this study I learned that while scripture often attributes human characteristics to God, it also uses non-human characteristics to describe Him. (Not surprisingly, you won’t find any of these passages listed in the LDS Topical Guide.) Mormons can no more claim that God is a glorified man than someone could say He is an enormous bird. While God is a spirit (John 4:24) He is so powerful that He can take on any form He chooses. We see at Christ’s baptism that the Holy Ghost took on the physical form of a dove.

Scripture often uses word pictures to give us a glimpse of what God is like because He is so unlike humans:

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.” (1 Timothy 3:16)

Scripture reveals that our Savior has always been God! He was not (as LDS prophets claim) “the first spirit born to our heavenly parents”—parents who began their lives as spirit children:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” (John 1:1, 14) Jesus took on human flesh and became a man “to make reconciliation for the sins of the people” (Hebrews 2:14-18). Even though He was God, He “took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.” (Philippians 2:5-8)

In the end, it is not the form of God that matters, it is what He accomplished. Death is a consequence of sin but Jesus had no sins of His own! He died on the cross because He chose to die—for you. It was His mission—His very purpose for coming to earth was to take our sins upon Himself, as if they were His own:

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.” (2 Corinthians 5:21) Your sins have been covered and forgiven by His blood. Believe it and receive it, and trust in Him:

How excellent is thy loving kindness, O God! therefore the children of men put their trust under the shadow of thy wings.” Psalms 36:7

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14 Comments

  1. shematwater said,

    January 15, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    I am just having fun on these new articles. In general I don’t like posting until others have posted, but this just lends itself to great commentary.

    First you say that LDS doctrine teaches that “God was once a sinful man.”
    This is a very false concept that many sadly feel inclined to believe because they know not the truth. God was perfect, in the same way as Christ was perfect. He never once sinned in all his existence. In John 5: 19-20 Christ states “Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth”
    Thus, Christ, being the son, could not perform the Atonement if his Father had not done so first (for a different Earth and generation) and the Father could not have done it without being perfect, for it must be a perfect sacrifice.
    Joseph Smith verifies this as the doctrine of the Church in the “King Follet Discourse.” He says “The Scriptures inform us that Jesus said, As the Father hath power in Himself, even so hath the Son power—to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious—in a manner to lay down His body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again.” (Teachings of Joseph Smith pg 346)
    The Father was never a “sinful man” but a perfect being, and a savior to his generation.

    Now, speaking of Isaiah 43: 10, I think I mentioned this before, but let us look at verse 11. “I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no savior.” What is God really saying? That there is only one God? No. He is saying that there is only one savior; only one who can perform the needed atonement that will give all men the chance to gain eternal life. It is similar to Hosea 13: 4 “Yet I am the Lord thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no savior beside me.”
    As to Isaiah 44: 6, Notice that two different Gods are mentioned: The King of Israel, and the King’s redeemer the Lord of Hosts. Now, it is true that there is no other God beside them, for they are the governing powers, and all other god are below them. They are the first, for they created the world, and they are the last, for will judge the world.

    As to the Psalms quotes you give as proof that the other references are only symbolic, I have to pick on you for taking things out of Context, as you seem to love that accusation with me.
    I do not have time nor the desire to list all the scriptures in the Topical Guide that show the physical nature of God’s body. However, if you care to look at them you will notice that without exception they are of two types. They are either recording what people actually saw or heard, or they are comparing human bodies to the body of God.
    Now, let us look at these wonderful quotes in Psalms. Psalms was not a letter written for the purpose of instruction, as many references in the New Testament are, nor are they historical records, as the Old Testament is, as well as the rest of the New Testament references. Psalms is a literary work, a poem, written to inspire. It being an art form it would very understandable that it uses symbolic language, as that is what art is.
    You will notice that the Topical Guide gives nothing from the poetry books, or from the prohet’s writing on this topic, as these books lend themselves more readily to symbolism. It uses only the Histories and epistles, which lend themselves more readily to literal interpretations. The only reference given that is not from one of these book is in the Book of Revelation, which prophesies that the faithful shall “see his face.”

    As to Christ always being God, I agree completely with the references given. However, the reference mentions “from the Beginning” which would indicate a time period. There is no beginning or end in the eternities, thus we must ask “The beginning of what?” I would answer “The beginning of this world?” Not the creation of this world, but from the time God declared that he would create it.

    As to God’s form not mattering, I have to disagree. We are told in John 17: 3 (by Christ himself) “this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” How can we truly know God if we are ignorant as to his form. We must understand his form to truly know him, and thus we must understand his form to have Eternal Life.

    It is always fun.

  2. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    January 19, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    Shem, you wrote:

    First you say that LDS doctrine teaches that “God was once a sinful man.” This is a very false concept that many sadly feel inclined to believe because they know not the truth. God was perfect, in the same way as Christ was perfect. He never once sinned in all his existence.

    I quoted LDS Prophet Lorenzo Snow: “As man now is, God once was

    Why don’t you believe the words of this LDS Prophet?
    I’m sorry, but not to belittle you at all, Shem, I believe that the words of LDS prophets better testify as to correct LDS doctrine than yours. From your own words, you are only 24 years old and before last December weren’t even considered Temple worthy. How can you claim to have the authority to denounce the teachings of LDS prophets?

    Joseph Smith himself has revealed that “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens,’ and that men ‘have got to learn how to be Gods … the same as all Gods have done before.”

    If God was “once as we are now” that makes Him once to be a sinful human.

    Gerald Lund wrote an article for the Ensign discussing whether the teaching that God was once as we are now, is official LDS doctrine:

    To my knowledge there has been no “official” pronouncement by the First Presidency declaring that President Snow’s couplet is to be accepted as doctrine. But that is not a valid criteria for determining whether or not it is doctrine. Generally, the First Presidency issues official doctrinal declarations when there is a general misunderstanding of the doctrine on the part of many people. Therefore, the Church teaches many principles which are accepted as doctrines but which the First Presidency has seen no need to declare in an official pronouncement. This particular doctrine has been taught not only by Lorenzo Snow, fifth President of the Church, but also by others of the Brethren before and since that time.

    Just in case you still don’t believe that I am stating the correct LDS doctrine, I have added a page under my “References for blog posts”. On this page I have provided quotes taken directly from this Ensign article as well as others, found on lds.org. One of those pages is the King Follet Sermon that you mentioned, where Joseph Smith clearly teaches “God himself was once as we are now.

    You may find the link to these quotes at the bottom of the post we are commenting on.

  3. shematwater said,

    January 20, 2010 at 10:59 am

    LDSWOMAN

    You are being truly ridiculous in your interpretation of the Prophets words. I have no problem with what Lorenzo Snow said, or with the quote from the Ensign. However, you are taking the quotes of LDS leaders and overlaying your own philosophy on it.

    “As man is God once was” is a true statement, in the fact that God once had a physical body, just as we do; that he lived as a mortal on another earth, just as we do; that he was tried and tested, just as we are. However, from the King Follet discourse we know that he lived that life in the same way that Christ lived his, that is perfect.

    (by the way, where is this “references for blog posts” you mention. I don’t see it anywhere, unless you mean the related topics part)

  4. shematwater said,

    January 20, 2010 at 11:13 am

    Now, I have read the additional LDS quotes you give, and find none of them to be contrary to what I Have said. None of them make the slightest mention of God having ever sinned. They only teach that he was once born into a physical body on another Earth and has since risen to his exaltation. The comparison is made by Joseph Smith to Christ, who we know lived a perfect life.

    You have given nothing to support the idea that God the Father ever sinned, and you will never find it in any of the actual teachings of the LDS leaders.

  5. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    January 20, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    Shem, you wrote:

    Now, I have read the additional LDS quotes you give, and find none of them to be contrary to what I Have said.They only teach that he was once born into a physical body on another Earth and has since risen to his exaltation. The comparison is made by Joseph Smith to Christ, who we know lived a perfect life. You have given nothing to support the idea that God the Father ever sinned, and you will never find it in any of the actual teachings of the LDS leaders.

    LDS teaching claims that men can, will and have become gods. Doctrine and Covenants 132 claims that Abraham is now a god. Spencer Kimball claimed that at least 225,000 men would become gods. All of these men are/were, at one time, sinners. According to LDS teaching, they will create and populate their own worlds. The entire population of each world will worship one specific “exalted man” (who used to be a sinner) as their own god.

    Is our world somehow special? Did our world get the one and only god who did not have to climb a ladder and overcome sin in order to become a god? Can you show me any official LDS literature that claims that the god of this world began existence differently than the gods of all the other worlds? Can you give me any official LDS statement that disagrees with Joseph Smith’s words: “I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea

    Can you give me any LDS literature that explains how the god of this world is somehow different than all the other gods before him and all the gods that will follow him? Can you give me any LDS quotes explaining why the god of our world did not begin his existence in the very same way as the gods before and all the gods that will follow?

  6. shematwater said,

    January 21, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    LDSWOMAN

    You are not using your God-given intelligence.

    Let me make things simpler.

    Remember the quote from John that the Son can only do what the Father did?
    Question: If this is to be taken literally, who is going to perform the Atonement for my spirit children when I become a god? I have not performed the Atonement, and thus non of my children will be able to, for they can only do that which their father did, and that would be me.
    Let us reason this out.
    If none of my children will be able to perform this necessary service who will do it? The answer is obvious. It will be done by the son of the man who has himself performed the service. Thus, the Savior, the one who will perform the necessary atonement for my children, will be the Son of Jesus Christ, for only his son will have the ability to do so.
    I may create my own worlds for my children, but their savior will be born on a different world that is inhabited by the children of Jesus and will perform the atonement there. We may have sinned, but our leader will have lived sinless.

    God was not God from all eternity. He progressed to become God, just as all men (including Christ) did. He overcame sin, jsut as we do and just as Christ did. However, he did so perfectly. As such he was the Savior for his generation and became the God of gods among them. He is the Great Elohiem, or head of the gods. But in the next generation his son, Jesus Christ (or Jehovah) will be the head of the gods of that generation for he was their Savior. Our Father’s father was the savior for his generation, as was his Father, and his, and so on back through eternity, and so it will continue throughout eternity.

    This is the doctrine of the church, and nothing you have quoted goes contrary to it. It is what Joseph Smith taught in the King Follett Discourse, which is all the evidence anyone really needs.

  7. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    January 21, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    Shem,
    I never use my “God-given intelligence” when doing so contradicts scripture. God’s holy Word leaves no doubt that there is, has, and always has been, only one God: Deuteronomy 4:35, 6:4, 32:39, 2 Samuel 7:22, Psalm 86:10, Isaiah 9:6, 45:5-6 & 15-22, 46:9, 1 Corinthians 8:4.

    My heart longs for you to believe in this one true God, but you choose to reject Him. I pray that one day you will repent and humbly turn to the only true God.

    God actually tests His people with false prophets that profess there are other gods:

    If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. 5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.” (Dt 13:1-5)

    Shem, even though LDS prophets declare that God is not a jealous God, the prophets of the Old Testament proclaim that He is: “For the Lord thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.” (Deuteronomy 4:24)

    Of this God, the prophet Jeremiah declared: (Chapter 23):

    Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.

    The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly. 21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied. 22 But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.” (20-22)

    Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. 17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.” (16-17)

    Shem, there are serious eternal consequences for trusting in false prophets who teach of false gods. I beg you to listen to the words of God’s prophets and apostles. Even though LDS prophets claim that God is a God of love–that He would never send mere sinners to dwell in the same domain as Satan (that no evil shall come upon you) this is not what the one true God has revealed through His prophets and apostles.

    God is a God of love–in fact He sent His Son to save sinful men. Those who believe in His Son have been given the gift of eternal life. But those who reject His Son will not see life because they remain in their sins (John 3:15-18 & 5:24). Jesus taught different beliefs than what LDS Prophets teach. He testified of the serious consequences for sinning–so serious that to stop themselves from sinning, a person should cut off their hand or their foot or even pluck out their eyes. He taught that sinners would “be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.” (Mk 9:45-46)

    Just read the story Jesus told about the rich man who was sent to hell: “And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.” (Lk 16:23-31)

    Even though LDS prophets claim that no evil shall come upon the majority of sinners (eternally); Jesus told us that on Judgment Day He will tell those who merely committed sins of omission:

    Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Mt 25:41-46)

    Please Shem, think of your children and the eternal consequences that they might experience if you teach them to follow false prophets. I beg you to trust in the words of your Savior and Lord. Your sins have all been forgiven:

    And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. ” (Re 1:5-6)

  8. shematwater said,

    January 22, 2010 at 9:20 am

    You make a wonderful transition in topics. We are discussing what the LDS doctrine is, and you have stated a false doctrine, one that lets you look down on the church more easily. Now that the error of the doctrine is plainly put before you you deside to ignore the doctrine and simply go into a basic attack on the general doctrine of the church. It is all very well done.

    However, you still have made errors.

    God is a Jealous God, and I, nor the church will deny this. If we worship or pray to any other god we sin and fall under condemnation. There was a woman who taught at BYU (I think) who was excomunicated for teaching her students to pray to their Heavenly Mother. Now, I believe I have a heavenly mother, but I do not pray to her, but to the Father.

    As to contradicting the scriptures, I can’t think of a single doctrine of the LDS church that does so. It contradicts what you believe, yes, but not the text of the scriptures. Words are a funny thing, having several different literal and symbolic meanings, and just because what we believe contradicts the meaning you give to them does not mean there is not another possible meaning that is in perfect agreement with us.

    As to the idea of there being only one God, I would refer you to 1 Corinthians 8: 5-6 “For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.”
    Now, I know you probably believe Paul is speaking of false gods, but the wording here allows for the interpretation that he was indeed stating that there are many gods, but out of all of them there is only one that we worship, the God of this Earth. And besides this, notice that the Father is called God, but Christ is only called Lord. This would indicate they are separate being, one being above the other in authority (and thus making at least two Gods).

    I trust all the words that Christ has said, and all that has been said through his prophets, including this statement of Pauls that there are many gods. Do you trust Christ when he says we will be like him, as John testifies to in his first epistle (1 John 3: 2). How can we be like him if we are not gods?

    I am sorry that you have strayed into the false paths of modern Christiandom, and hope that one day you will find your way back into the true light of Christ, for only then can you truly experience the joy that the Father wants for you.

  9. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    January 27, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    Oh Shem, can’t you understand why I made the transition of topics? I am so fearful for you and I am trying to warn you of the eternal consequences for rejecting the one and only true God. I have clearly stated LDS doctrine but you refuse to admit to it. I have clearly stated God’s truth, but you have rejected it. Out of fear for your eternal judgment, I have warned you of the eternal consequences. God is a merciful God, but all who reject His gift of free and full forgiveness will know that He is also a God of wrath. I do not want for you to suffer the eternal consequences for your sins, so I warned you.

    In reality, I used Christ’s example when He dealt with the Pharisees who constantly rejected His Words. In Luke sixteen, when Jesus taught His disciples about money, they “heard all these things: and they derided him”. Jesus changed the subject and told them the story of the rich man who was in torment in Hell. This man who was in Hell wanted Abraham to send someone to warn his brothers so they wouldn’t end up where he was. Jesus explained that if someone rejected scripture, they would even reject a personal visit from the dead. Here are His words showing the importance of studying scripture: “Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.” (Moses and the prophets was a term the Jews used for parts of the Old Testament):

    In regards to correct LDS doctrine, you have not given me one single quote from one single official lds source proving that your interpretation is correct (and providing a link to lds.org) Yes, you might try and claim that your prophets doctrine “As man is God once was; As God is, man may be” refers only to God’s physical nature. But as I quoted from Gospel Principles: “The Prophet Joseph Smith taught: “When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom…This is the way our Heavenly Father became God.

    LDS doctrine clearly teaches that sinful humans have become gods and many million more will become gods. You might like to believe that the god you worship has never sinned, but the truth is that lds doctrine still teaches that billions of people will worship created gods who were at one time sinners. You might even like to think that somehow, you and the other lucky few that live on a world with a god who never once sinned; are somehow better than those who get stuck with a god who was once a sinner. But the bottom line is that sinful humans, who have climbed the ladder and overcome sin, have been, and will become, worshiped as gods.

    The most dangerous thing that you refuse to believe is God’s truth!!! For all time, there has only been one God and there will always be only one God. You wrote:
    As to the idea of there being only one God, I would refer you to 1 Corinthians 8: 5-6 “For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” Now, I know you probably believe Paul is speaking of false gods, but the wording here allows for the interpretation that he was indeed stating that there are many gods, but out of all of them there is only one that we worship, the God of this Earth.

    We can know that Paul is speaking of false gods. We can know that there are not multiple gods simply by allowing scripture to interpret scripture!

    Once again the Prophet Isaiah wrote: “Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.” “Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.” (43:10, 44:6)

    Reading these words of the prophet Isaiah leaves no doubt that Paul was not inferring there were other gods of other worlds. As well, we can turn to the other writings of Paul to verify that here, he did not mean there were multiple gods (Ephesians 4:6).

    LDS prophets clearly preach of a false god. We know this by testing their words against the words of the Prophet Isaiah (as well as many other prophets of God). LDS prophets clearly disagree with the Prophet Isaiah. All who place their trust in a created god will suffer eternal torment, just like Jesus described in Luke 16.

    As to whether or not the LDS church has ever stated that God is not a jealous god, read this in Gospel Principles:

    What is exaltation? Blessings of Exaltation
    Our Heavenly Father is perfect. However, he is not jealous of his wisdom and perfection. He glories in the fact that it is possible for his children to become like him. He has said, “This is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39). Those who receive exaltation in the celestial kingdom through faith in Jesus Christ will receive special blessings. The Lord has promised, “All things are theirs” (D&C 76:59). These are some of the blessings given to exalted people:
    1. They will live eternally in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (see D&C 76).
    2. They will become gods.
    3. They will have their righteous family members with them and will be able to have spirit children also. These spirit children will have the same relationship to them as we do to our Heavenly Father. They will be an eternal family.
    4. They will receive a fulness of joy.
    5. They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge.

    Link:

  10. shematwater said,

    February 1, 2010 at 8:56 am

    LDSWOMAN

    You have no understanding, and as such you stumbles greatly in your attempt to teach LDS doctrine and devine truth. You cannot see your own error, and you continue in darkness.

    A few comments.

    Yes, we believe that a sinful man can become a god and have children. However, where does it say we will be worshiped? We will create worlds for our children, but Christ will still be the great God of our generation, and my children, as well as everyone elses will recognize this and worship him as the head of the gods, and one of the Godhead along with his first son and another to act as the Holy Spirit. It will be the same thing that is here now. Until you can understand this you will never know the truth.

    Now, I do agree with Joseph Smith that God progressed on the same path as we do now, but he did so perfectly, just as his son Jesus Christ did. This is why he is the perfect exemplar.
    Can you deny the logic of the argument for God’s perfection that I gave, in which I said that since Christ is perfect, and he could only do what his Father did, his Father was also perfect. Can you deny that Joseph Smith meant anything else when he taught that the Father was the Savior of his generation (see my quote from the King Follet Discourse)? These are plain truths to anyone who is really wanting to understand the realities of eternity.

    Now, your argument against what I say concerning the quote in 1st Corinthians simply brings up the old references that I have already answered, and answered in a very simple, logical, and truthful manner. Christ, as it says in Isaiah 43: 11, is the Savior, and the only God who could be the savior. This is what is being said here. In 44: 6 Isaiah mentions two Gods, “The King of Isreal and the Lord of Hosts.” Since he himself names two different Gods, one being the authority of the other, we can assume that 43:10 is not talking of one God, but of one savior as I have said on multiple occassions.
    Please try and use references that I have not already explained, as using these over and over shows a lack of knowledge concerning the scriptures and in the understanding of their meaning.

    Now, concerning Ephesians, let us read verses 5-6:
    “One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
    So, here again we have a separation of the Father and the Son, or as it is here “The One Lord, and the One God.” Now, in verse six alone we have the statement “One God and Father of all.” This in itself shows that he is speaking of this position within the ranks of the gods. There is only “One God” who is “Father of all,” or the leader of all the gods. In verse five we here of “One Lord” which seems to be a reference to Christ. Going back Isaiah 44, this would be “his redeemer the Lord of hosts,” which he tells us in Isaiah 43: 11 is the only savior we have.
    See how it all works together, and how it is all in perfect harmony with the modern prophets.

    As to John 16, I do not see the transition you speak of. The entire chapter seems to be speaking of the same general topic, which is the fact that you either serce God or you don’t. I really don’t see anything about money. I know mammon literally means righes, but in the case it seems to be speaking more to the world, which is more concerning with money, and this is why he calls it “unrighteous mammon” as money is not evil in itself.

    With all you have said you have failed to show any real reasoning in your words. You ignore the simple logic of my words in favor of the twisted attempt you have made to justify your own disbelief. You are hung up on one or two verses of scripture, and more especially on a single phrase, but give no actual thought to the varied meanings that it can have in the various context that it is used. You want to believe what you believe, and so you will not listen to anything that contradicts it. As such you have lost the greatest joy that a person can have, which comes only only through an exceptance of the truth and joining with the Chruch of Christ, which is had only in the LDS church.

  11. shematwater said,

    February 1, 2010 at 9:20 am

    One other note.

    Concerning the Jealousy of God. God is not jealous of those who do that which is right, progress, become gods themselves, and inherit all that he has. This is what he wants. I am in full agreement with the quote you have given.

    However, God is jealous when people worship as gods objects which cannot gain that status, or people who as yet have not gained that statis. Through his own work and progression the Father has gained the right to our worship, and if we give it to those who have not gained this right he is jealous. This is the jealousy of God that is spoken of in the scriptures, when the people began to worship other gods. Without exception God is refered to as being Jealous only when speaking of the people turning to other gods.

    He has progressed and gained the right to our worship, and is jealous when we give it to those who have not earned it. Just as my Father would be jealous if I called another man my father, but is not jealous that I have married and have a family of my own.

  12. catzgalore said,

    February 1, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    Shem, what she teaches matches what I have read on the LDS site. She even documents her sources. SHE IS QUOTING FROM LDS SOURCES. She is quoting the same scriptures and teachings that you claim to believe. You seem to be saying that what SHE learned as LDS at an LDS church from the LDS scriptures and LDS leaders and teachers is not the truth. If she learns one thing at one church and you learn another, how do you know who is right?

  13. shematwater said,

    February 2, 2010 at 8:41 am

    CATZ

    What I am saying is that she does not understand the sources she is siting. I don’t care how many times you quote the leaders of the church, if you have no understanding you will never know their meaning.

    As an example, take the supossed doctrine that the Father was once a sinner. Do any of the quotes she has ever given say that he was? Do any of the prophets ever say that the Father lived a sinful life? No, they do not. None of them do be cause it is a false doctrine. In fact, as I have shown, Joesph Smith taught that the Father lived his life in the same way that Jesus did, and we know from many LDS quotes as well as the Bible that Jesus lived a perfect life. Thus, by the words of Joseph Smith, the greatest prophet of our day, the Father lived a sinful life.

    This is what I am talking about. LDSWOMAN, and the vast majority of those who make blogs such as this, do not really know LDS doctrine, and I really don’t care what their background is. They latch onto false teachings that have no real foundation, claiming them the true doctrine of the church. They are in error, but to admit such would force them to question not only their motives, but their beliefs, and so they will claim they are showing the true doctrine even when plainly shown that it is false. This is what LDSWOMAN has done, and what she continues to do.

  14. shematwater said,

    February 2, 2010 at 8:51 am

    sorry, that should have been “Thus, by the words of Joseph Smith, the greatest prophet of our day, the Father lived a sinless life.”


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