Did Jesus Create Every Thing Out of Nothing?

I never really had an interest in art until I found a medium I fell in love with—glass. Once I began working with all the delectable colors and textures of glass I was hooked. My passion for creating glass art has been a part of my life for over twenty-three years now. It became such a passion that when I lived in Virginia I converted my bedroom into a work studio. It was the only space I had available so I got rid of my bed and slept on a mattress that could be moved into a closet during the day. My love for working with glass quickly evolved into a business and I began doing commissioned windows and teaching classes. I absolutely love making glass panels that are uniquely my own creations—using my own design as well as picking out which glass to use.

What is interesting is that once I am finished with the piece I have created, I have no more interest in it. In fact, I only have one panel on display in my house and that is one I made for my oldest daughter who doesn’t have any place to keep it.

Reading the Old Testament Gospel Doctrine Lesson: “The Creation” caused me to think about the comparisons between how I “create” my glass art with how God “created” our world. I realized that as an artist, the way I “create” art is similar to Joseph Smith’s explanation of how God “created” the earth. When I “create” a piece of glass art I am really just “organizing” already existing materials into an original piece of art. I pick out specific glass, cutting it into the shapes I desire; and then use foil and solder it all together into its final form. According to LDS doctrine, this is exactly how God “created” the world we live on:

“Was the earth created out of nothing? (See Abraham 3:24; 4:1.) The Prophet Joseph Smith said: “The word create came from the [Hebrew] word baurau which does not mean to create out of nothing; it means to organize; the same as a man would organize materials and build a ship. Hence, we infer that God had materials to organize the world out of chaos—chaotic matter” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 350–51).”

When I was LDS I never questioned the LDS belief that God used already existing materials to organize the world—that He didn’t create “every thing” out of “nothing”. At the time, I certainly didn’t realize how this false teaching was merely one of many that diminish the amazing power of our God. Today, I am so thankful that my eyes have been opened to the truth. And, I am especially thrilled with some of the new passions God has given me. My love for creating glass art pales in comparison with my passion for studying God’s Word and sharing His truth with others. My God is the love of my life and every time I read scripture He speaks to me personally. If there is something that God wants me to understand, I trust that I will find the answer in His Word.

What did our loving God reveal to us in scripture about creation? Did Jesus merely “organize” already existing material when our world was created, or did He create “every thing” out of “nothing”? Digging into scripture to find the answer to these questions has thrilled me. Doing so has reminded me of just how amazing and powerful my Lord is.

God’s Word testifies that Jesus created “every thing” out of “nothing”—everything visible and invisible! Speaking of Jesus, the Apostle Paul wrote:

“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist” (Colossians 1).

The Apostle John’s testimony verifies Paul’s: “Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.” (Revelation 4:11)

Just look around you to see a glimpse of the world’s most amazing artist. It is a blessing to know how glorious Jesus is. When He created our world, He did so out of nothing—merely by speaking. When I “create’ a piece of art, I have to use materials that someone else has made; out of materials that were originally created by Jesus.

By far the most comforting aspect of our Savior is that unlike me, He didn’t loose interest in His creation once He was finished. The Apostle John revealed Jesus’ testimony:

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” Believe it, and receive it!

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33 Comments

  1. sdrogers said,

    February 7, 2010 at 1:00 am

    Sorry, but this doesn’t particularly move me that much.

    I find the idea that God would create something like Satan out of nothing to be deeply offensive and problematic.

    Compared to that ugly doctrine, the idea of Jesus and Satan being brothers is almost heartwarming by comparison.

    Seth R.

  2. sdrogers said,

    February 7, 2010 at 1:03 am

    Also, you’re analogy is faulty.

    When you paint, you say that someone else was involved in creating the paints.

    But that’s not the Mormon view. Matter is eternal and uncreated. So is human identity. God is not working with materials that someone else created. Everything simply “is.”

    Saying that God created the universe out of what was already there is no more a diminishing of his power than stating God is incapable of creating a rock so big he can’t lift it. It’s not really a problem for God’s glory at all. And, as I point out above, it avoids some very ugly problems that Christian theologians have been struggling with for centuries.

    The theodicy isn’t even half as much of a problem for Mormon theologians as it is for your team.

  3. shematwater said,

    February 8, 2010 at 9:46 am

    I like what Seth said. If God created everything out of nothing than he creaated Evil. I am sorry, but a perfectly just and righteous God would not ahve done so, which causes large problems. With this doctrine we can justly blame God for all our troubles, for he created them.

    Anyways, I still like possing the question, “If nothing existed before God created it, where did God come from?”

    Also, jsut a note, none of the verses you sight say anything about creation out of nothing. It says he created all that is in heaven and Earth, meaning all things physical (for outer space has always been refered to as heaven, which is what I think these verse are refering to). All the organized matter thatwe see, all that we can detect in this world, and in the heavens of space, were created (or organized) be Christ. This is perfectly in line with what the scriptures say.

  4. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    February 8, 2010 at 11:20 am

    Hi Seth,

    Great to hear from you again. You wrote:
    I find the idea that God would create something like Satan out of nothing to be deeply offensive and problematic.

    So you prefer the LDS doctrine that Satan was actually born as a spirit child of God the Father and his wife? That Satan is literally God’s spirit child?

  5. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    February 8, 2010 at 11:28 am

    Hi again Seth,

    you wrote: “But that’s not the Mormon view. Matter is eternal and uncreated. So is human identity. God is not working with materials that someone else created. Everything simply “is.””

    So how did matter become eternal? If it wasn’t created, where did it come from originally? The scriptures say that God existed before everything. “And he is before all things” (Colossians 1). If God is before all things, how did matter come to exist before God? Did everything just start with a big bang? How did the first God in Mormonism come to be?

  6. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    February 8, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Shem,

    You wrote: “I like what Seth said. If God created everything out of nothing than he creaated Evil. I am sorry, but a perfectly just and righteous God would not ahve done so, which causes large problems. With this doctrine we can justly blame God for all our troubles, for he created them.

    So where do you believe evil came from? According to your prophets, Satan and his angels began as God’s spirit children, just like you did. Doesn’t that mean that your “perfectly just and righteous God” actually gave birth to, or created, evil?

    You wrote: “Anyways, I still like possing the question, “If nothing existed before God created it, where did God come from?” I will ask you the same question. Where did the first Mormon god come from?

    You wrote: “Also, jsut a note, none of the verses you sight say anything about creation out of nothing. It says he created all that is in heaven and Earth, meaning all things physical.” Did you not read Colossians 1? “all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist (Colossians 1).

    According to this verse, God existed before all things and created all things. Why would matter be excluded from “all things“?

    You wrote: “It says he created all that is in heaven and Earth, meaning all things physical ” The verses I cite also claim that God created all things “visible and invisible“. Invisible things are not always physical.

  7. shematwater said,

    February 8, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    First, as to where matter and ods come from?

    They don’t. Matter and spirits and gods and all forms of life have always existed and will always exist. Brigham Young answered the question of “Which came first: the egg or the chicken?” in this way. Neither came first. For there was not a time in all eternity that there was not both a chicken and an egg in existance.
    I do not claim to understand it all, but matter is eternal, meaning it has no beginning or end. There are phases through which it passes (spirit, mortal, immortal, etc.) but it has always and will always exist. The idea that it came from anywhere is more mind boggling to me than to think it has always been there.

    Sorry about the references thing. I will restate my point.

    When the Bible speaks of all things it is speaking concerning this Earth, or all things conserning it (all things that we can see and sense). Thus, for him to be the creater of all things still allows for other gods and other creations. It is still perfectly in line with what the scriptures say.

    As to Satan, giving birth to an evil child does not mean you have created evil. After all, Adam was a righteous man, but he bore Cain as a son. We also see some of the Kings of Judah who were great men but had evil sons. Evil has always existed, just as good has, as neither could exist without the other. God created neither, he simply chose one (good). His children were free to make their own choices and Satan chose evil.

  8. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    February 9, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    Shem,

    You wrote: “First, as to where matter and ods come from? They don’t. Matter and spirits and gods and all forms of life have always existed and will always exist. Brigham Young answered the question of “Which came first: the egg or the chicken?” in this way. Neither came first. For there was not a time in all eternity that there was not both a chicken and an egg in existance. I do not claim to understand it all, but matter is eternal, meaning it has no beginning or end.

    So, in other words, you believe and trust in the words of the LDS prophet Brigham Young. By doing so, you are saying that God’s Words are incorrect, that the Apostle Paul is wrong. Once again, the Holy Ghost inspired Paul to write:

    “all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist (Colossians 1).

    God created all things. He existed before all things. I place my trust in God’s scripture and His apostles. I pray that one day, your eyes will be opened to the truth.

  9. shematwater said,

    February 9, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    LDS WOMAN

    You are again ignoring what I say. It seems to pick out of my words those things which allowed you to hold your view, and discard those that don’t.

    There is no contradiction between Brigham Young (and just so you know Joseph Smith taught this first) and Paul. Paul, in the Colossians, is speaking of those things that we can see and sense (the visible and the invisible) not to all things in existance throughout eternity. Thus, God created all things that pertain to this world (those things seen and sensed) and was before they existed, just as Paul said. However, there are still many gods and many worlds, and there always have been and always will be.

  10. shmyers21 said,

    February 9, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    It’s sad when I come across a website like this. I don’t like to see or hear about bitter old ex-LDS members trying to convince and prove their point to others that the LDS church is bad and all of our teachings are wrong. That is definitely NOT the way to convince or make people believe your position. The Jehovah’s Witnesses do this…they disprove all other churches, so therefore THEIR church must be the right one. It doesn’t work that way.

    I wish you well and just wanted to chime in on the conversation. Good luck in whatever you are out to prove!

  11. shematwater said,

    February 10, 2010 at 10:52 am

    Thank you SHYMERS21

    All I am out to prove is that both forms of belief are equally supported by the Bible. I have no rel intent to prove one better than the other.
    Oh yeah, I also want to show that the supposed contradictions” and “changed doctrine” don’t exist in the LDS church.

  12. sdrogers said,

    February 14, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    ldswoman,

    Yes, I do find the idea of Satan being pre-existing being, made a child of God via some form of spiritual adoption to be VASTLY superior to the notion that God would simply will such a being into existence.

    I’d prefer God not be a party to some of the horrible things that have happened.

    As for where “matter” or “evil” came from…

    They just “are.” They are simply realities of the way things are – like one plus one equals two. God didn’t invent addition. It simply is. Likewise, matter simply “is.” Evil simply “is.” This doesn’t logically detract from God at all.

  13. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    February 14, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    Hi Seth,

    You wrote: “Yes, I do find the idea of Satan being pre-existing being, made a child of God via some form of spiritual adoption to be VASTLY superior to the notion that God would simply will such a being into existence. I’d prefer God not be a party to some of the horrible things that have happened.

    I’m not sure why you think that I believe God created Satan already evil. (Or, as you wrote, willed him as an evil being into existence.) After God had created everything, He said: “And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.” (Genesis 1:31) This was after He had created angels and man, but before man had sinned and some of God’s angels had fallen.

    The Bible teaches that Satan is a fallen angel who sinned. Just as God created Adam and Eve who sinned, God created angels who sinned and Satan is the chief of those fallen angels. Just as man has become evil, so also, there are angels who have fallen.

  14. sdrogers said,

    February 14, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    So, are you saying that evil came from something outside of God’s control?

    Are you giving up on the omnipotence idea?

  15. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    February 14, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    Hi Seth,

    I’m not even sure if I understand your question, but the fact that man and some angels became sinful does not disagree with God’s omnipotence. It just shows that God created humans and angels alike with free choice (or as Mormons call it, agency).

  16. sdrogers said,

    February 14, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    So where did evil come from then?

  17. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    February 14, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    Seth,

    I don’t know. As far as I know, God didn’t tell us where evil came from. What I do know is that immediately after creation, there was only good in the world. But it certainly didn’t take very long for angels to fall and man to sin. And, I know that our loving God has conquered Satan. God is in control and offers an eternity of joy where there will be no evil. But here on this earth, there is evil. Before I was brought to faith I was totally evil. Now, I have been made perfect and holy through Christ’s blood. God promises me that He will work all things out for my good (Romans 8:28)–even being sexually abused as a child has been somehow worked out for me. This world, or our time in this world is like a short, two-week vacation gone bad compared to what an eternity living with my Lord and Savior.

  18. shematwater said,

    February 15, 2010 at 10:57 am

    LDSWOMAN

    Hello again.

    What you have just said illustrates the flaws in the logic of Christian Philosophy. You do not know where evil come from, yet God created everything out of nothing. If he created everything than he also created evil. Even if he didn’t create Satan as an evil being in the beginning he created the options, or the process by which he became evil, and thus it is still on him.

    However, I would like to ask you a question: If there is no evil in heaven how can there be any good? Evil exists because there is good, two opposign concepts that require each other to exist. If there is no evil there can be no good, and thus a heaven without evil is a heaven without good, and thus a heaven I do not wish to inhabit.

  19. catzgalore said,

    February 16, 2010 at 4:40 pm

    I will accept any Heaven that God provides. I would not dream of telling God that I will not be in Heaven unless it fits my specifications. It is not for me to understand everything.

  20. sdrogers said,

    February 17, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    If God created everything out of nothing more than himself, then it is simply a matter of logic to say that evil came from God.

    I mean, you certainly aren’t suggesting that evil is co-eternal with God, right? So it can’t have come from outside God, correct? It had to come from God.

    Now, I’ve heard people like Robert Bowman argue that God merely created “stage one” ex nihilo, and it was merely at stage two that beings like Adam and Eve, etc. generated sin and stuff.

    This doesn’t work. It merely hides God behind a curtain in an attempt to get him off the hook.

    Let’s take an example.

    Let’s say I’m a computer programmer and I develop a video game for chess. Let’s say I envision a perfect sort of chess game, and program it with all the functions you’d want – difficulty settings, saved games for later review, online gaming capacity, and a hardest setting capable of giving Kasparov a run for his money. In my conception of the game, it is perfect and flawless.

    But then we install it onto the computer and give it a run. But instead of acting flawlessly as I envisioned, the program starts glitching. It violates the rules of chess. Pawns leaps eight spaces across the board to take other pieces. Captured pieces mysteriously return to the game. Kings die for no reason. Pandemonium.

    Now, answer me this – is my boss going to accept my explanation that “the game was perfect when I envisioned it”?

    Of course he isn’t. He’s going to conclude that I’m an incompetent programmer – that being the most likely option. I simply wasn’t skilled enough to program the chess game such that this wouldn’t happen.

    But, of course, we are talking about God here. Incompetence is ruled out by scripture. You believe that God saw all possibilities when he set the universe into motion ex nihilo. Nothing is happening today that he did not anticipate happening.

    Which leaves only the conclusion that God deliberately wrote the program such that what is occurring today would occur today.

    Hence – God is the source programmer of evil – if you believe in creation ex nihilo combined with an omnipotent and omniscient God, that is.

    If you want to remove responsibility for evil from God you must either:

    1. Make God no longer omniscient or omnipotent (you can pick whichever you prefer), or

    2. Eliminate creation ex nihilo

    Seth R.

  21. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    February 17, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    Seth, you wrote:

    If God created everything out of nothing more than himself, then it is simply a matter of logic to say that evil came from God.I mean, you certainly aren’t suggesting that evil is co-eternal with God, right? So it can’t have come from outside God, correct? It had to come from God.

    After the Holy Spirit brought me to faith I came to know just how amazing God is. I soon realized that my own emotions and logic kept disagreeing with scripture. I made a decision that my human logic, reasoning or emotions were subservient to what God has revealed through scripture. There are many questions that have not been answered by God, but I trust that He is in control.

    Since you don’t believe that God created all things, using your logic, where did all things come from? Where did the first god come from? Where did evil come from? Logically, how did it all happen?

  22. sdrogers said,

    February 17, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    I don’t mind people using the mystery defense ldswoman. If that’s something useful for your faith life, then that’s just fine by me.

    But if that’s all you got, then don’t come around criticizing other faiths for not playing along. You have absolutely no basis for criticizing the LDS faith on its beliefs about creation ex materia if the best you can come up with is “it’s a mystery.”

    As for where evil came from, where matter came from, where God came from, where human identity came from…

    They didn’t come from anything. They just are.

    2+2=4, and matter is an eternally existent fact about the universe. It didn’t have to come from anything.

  23. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    February 18, 2010 at 2:33 am

    Seth,

    If scripture is all I got, then I got all I need. I am so grateful that my eyes and heart have been turned to the one and only God. I have faithfully and vehemently followed my Saviors example and made scripture my authority. In doing so, I will critically test any religion or person that disagrees with His revealed Word. My purpose in doing so is to give all glory to my God and, to warn those who are following false teachings. Anyone who chooses to place their own logic over God’s Word is in grave error. The “criticizing” of false teachings and prophets is not some silly game where the loser’s end up in the lowest Kingdom of Heaven. Your eternal destination depends upon where you place your authority. Is it going to be your logic? Your emotions? Your LDS leaders? Or is it going to be the Bible–even if doing so disagrees with your emotions and your logic?

    The Holy Spirit has revealed in God’s Word, the Bible–that God created all things. After He had created all things, “God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.” (Genesis 1:31) At this moment, evil did not exist. When God created both angels and man, He gave them free will (agency). He did not force us to follow His commandments. Many of God’s angels chose to rebel against God. Adam and Eve chose to listen to Satan, who twisted God’s Word. In doing so, they placed their own logic above Gods Words. Evil came into existence.

    This is what God’s Word tells me. It is all I got and it is more than enough. There are so many “mysteries” that I cannot explain and I am so thankful. I trust fully that what I got is all I need. My God is so amazingly powerful and He loves me. He has forgiven every single sin that I have or ever will commit. If that’s all I got, I got all I need!!!

  24. sdrogers said,

    February 18, 2010 at 2:51 am

    Yeah, except that the Bible doesn’t call for creation ex nihilo.

    I’d be happy to point out how all the commonly used Bible verses used by Evangelicals in support of creation ex nihilo in fact do not demand any such thing.

    As for humans becoming as God – an entirely Biblical concept. One that many Evangelicals have sadly neglected. I’d be happy to provide Bible verses for you on this topic too.

    So hiding behind the Bible isn’t going to work here either.

    Look, I’d be just fine with you simply saying that “it’s a mystery” and “I feel the Bible text compels me to this reading” if you weren’t at the same time attacking Mormon beliefs on the subject. If you want to go on offense here, you are simply going to need more than:

    1. It’s a mystery, and
    2. The Bible tells me so

    Especially if you aren’t going to show us why the Bible says so.

    As for Genesis 1:31,

    Nope. Doesn’t make your point. That verse is simply talking about the creation of the earth. Not everything in existence. You’ll have to try something else. And simply noting that Satan said something doesn’t make it false either. Even demons declared Christ to be the son of the Living God. Are you suggesting they were lying?

    Seth R.

  25. shematwater said,

    February 18, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    LDSWOMAN

    In my personal opinion, which I believe I said on previous posts, the whole argument that “human logic” cannot descern the truths of God is contradictory to the Bible. Thus, if the Bible is your authority than your own logic should tell you when something is out of whack before you have the need to fall back of the writings.

    I take this from the simple fact that we are as God “to know good and evil.” (gen. 3: 22) As anything that is not true is a lie, and therefore evil, this would extend to all things, including an understanding the workings of th universe. We ahve the same mental capacity that God does, as declared by him. He even invites us to “reason together” with him (Isa. 1: 18).

    Sorry, but to say that the logic Seth and I have used does not matter because it is “human logic” contradicts the very words of God, for his is the same as ours.

    I do know the whole “My thoughts are not your thoughts” argument, and that will not work either (Isa. 55: 8). After all, my thoughts are not the thoughts of my wife, and yet I am able to “reason” with her. This phrase is simply a statement that since he lives in an eternal world (where nothing begins or ends), and we live in a mortal world (where everything begins and ends) we cannot understand all that he does, for we ahve not experienced. Just as no one born in the United States can understand the poverty of those born in Africa.

    Oh, and a minor note on Authority. My authority is not the Bible, but nor is it the LDS leaders; at least not my highest authority. And it is deffinitely not my logic or emotions. The highest Authority is God, and it is by his devine revelation to me that I will act, and I really don’t bother with any supposed contradiction this has to the Bible (thought I haven’t come across any yet). What will you do when you get to heaven to find that you are cast out for worshiping the created (the Bible) and not the creater (God).

  26. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    February 18, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    Seth,

    You wrote: “Look, I’d be just fine with you simply saying that “it’s a mystery” and “I feel the Bible text compels me to this reading” if you weren’t at the same time attacking Mormon beliefs on the subject. If you want to go on offense here, you are simply going to need more than:
    1. It’s a mystery, and
    2. The Bible tells me so
    Especially if you aren’t going to show us why the Bible says so.

    You must not have read the Post in which you are commenting on. Both the Apostle John, and the Apostle Paul clearly testified that Jesus existed before all things and, created all things. Here is what I wrote:

    “God’s Word testifies that Jesus created “every thing” out of “nothing”—everything visible and invisible! Speaking of Jesus, the Apostle Paul wrote “For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist(Colossians 1). The Apostle John’s testimony verifies Paul’s “Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.” (Revelation 4:11)”

  27. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    February 18, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    Shem,

    You wrote: “What will you do when you get to heaven to find that you are cast out for worshiping the created (the Bible) and not the creater (God).

    According to LDS belief, your belief–I will not be cast out of Heaven. LDS prophets declare that even people like Hitler will spend eternity in a Kingdom of Heaven–even those who never come to faith in Jesus will spend eternal life in a place more glorious than this earth.

  28. shematwater said,

    February 19, 2010 at 11:10 am

    LDSWOMAN

    As I said before, regarding the quotes from John and Paul, they are refering to this world. All the things we can see and sense (visible and invisible). As such things beyond our mortal senses are not included in these statements, and thus the LDS doctrine is just as much in agreement with these phrases as you are.

    As to you comment about entering the lowest levels of heaven, I have never denied this. However, you will be cast out of the Highest Heaven, where dwells the Father and the only place where we may gain eternal life.

  29. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    February 19, 2010 at 11:38 am

    Shem, you wrote:
    As to you comment about entering the lowest levels of heaven, I have never denied this. However, you will be cast out of the Highest Heaven, where dwells the Father and the only place where we may gain eternal life.

    Are you calling Jesus a liar? He has promised me that I already have eternal life–through belief in Him!!!

    That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” (John 3:15-18)

    He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” (John 3:36)

    Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.” (John 5:24)

    Or, how about the words of John the Beloved?

    These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.” (1 John 5:13)

  30. shematwater said,

    February 19, 2010 at 11:46 am

    I am not calling Jesus a liar. I am simply pointing out that you do not have faith in the true Christ Jesus of the Bible. You believe in a triune being who is three personalities within one body.
    The true Christ is a different personage fromt he Father, having a different body and mind, but being one in knowledge and power. He is the literal son of his Father, not some physical manifistation of incomprehensable triune being.

    As such your faith, not being centered in the true Christ, does not qualify for the blessings of Eternal Life that is granted to the faithful.

  31. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    February 19, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    Shem, you wrote:
    The true Christ is a different personage from the Father, having a different body and mind but being one in knowledge and power.

    I believe these words. Reading the account of Jesus’ baptism clearly shows that God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit are three, distinct personages. Heavenly Father spoke from the Heavens and, as Jesus was being baptized, the Holy Spirit took on the physical form of a dove.

    While the word Triune is not found in the Bible, the Bible does teach that these three distinct and separate personages are somehow also found “within one body”. Speaking of Christ, Colossians chapter two testifies: “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    John chapter one teaches that God the Father and God the Son have both been God from the beginning:

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” (John 1:1-3) (I guess in one way I do worship the Word, since Jesus is the Word and He is God.) In Acts 5:3-4 we find that the Holy Ghost is God.

    Scripture has proved that all three—the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are God. And yet, scripture also declares that there is only one God:

    Isaiah 48:16-The Lord God and his Spirit-Jesus, from the beginning
    Deuteronomy 6:4-Lord God is one
    Deuteronomy 4:35-No other God
    Deuteronomy 32:39-No other God with God
    1 Corinthians 8:6-To us there is one God
    2 Samuel 7:22-No other Gods
    Psalm 86:10-Thou art God alone
    Isaiah 9:6-Jesus is God and Everlasting Father
    Isaiah 43:10-Before and after-No other God
    Isaiah 44:8/45:5&6/18/22-No other God
    Isaiah 46:9-No other God
    Malachi 2:10-One God

  32. sdrogers said,

    February 19, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    You know, religious debaters have this really obnoxious habit of saying “your calling God a liar” when all you’re really doing is disagreeing with their read on God.

  33. shematwater said,

    February 19, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    I am not going to get into a long debate on this. The only reason I made the last post was because you are just being silly, shich seems to be common among most bloggers whose desire is to attack the church.
    You have made so many illogical arguments that it gets kind of tiring. Especially when you continue with the same ones over and over, even after I, or others, have shown you the flaws in them.
    Of course the basic flaw that is in most of your attacks on the LDS church is in taking a quote from the leaders and applying Evangelical doctrine in an attempt to interpret and understand it. This is what you have done in the previous quote, and I would say that in this case it seemed intentional, which is why I gave the response I did.
    You claimed I called God an liar, which would only have been true if I was speaking in connection with your understanding of God. However, as I am a Latter-Day Saint, discussing LDS doctrine, you should have realized I would include in this the LDS understanding of God, and not the Evangelical understanding. This you did not do, and thus accused my of calling Christ a liar. As such I needed to correct your false claim in the clearest way possible.

    As to all the wonderful quotes you give (and this is not an exhaustive list) I can show you with each one how they do not mean that God is literally one being with three parts, as you believe, and have done so in the past with several of them. However, as my only point is to to show you that senselessness of your lasty post, and this would not assistin that indevoor, I will refrain.


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