Exaltation: As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be

After the Holy Ghost brought me to faith, I had a burning desire to share my Savior with my Father. He was dying of cancer in Idaho and I lived in Virginia. I was attending the College of William and Mary as an older student. During the summer before my senior year I grabbed an opportunity to take a few classes at Boise State. My daughters and I stayed with my folks and I took every opportunity I could to share my new-found faith with my Dad.

I felt that the Lord was leading me to stay in Idaho to witness to my father, so I gave up my last year at William and Mary and stayed with my parents. The Lord gave me a full year with my Dad before he died and I cherished every moment. We had different faiths, but the Bible was our common ground and while he lay in bed I read it to him often. I must have read the book of Romans to him a hundred times. The message of free and full forgiveness seemed so clear to me and I couldn’t understand how my family couldn’t see the truth.

My father’s health deteriorated as the months went by. I believe that through his physical limitations, God was giving him the opportunity to be humbled; to see his need for a Savior who had already done everything for him. One day about three months before he died, I heard him ask my uncle this question:

“Bob, how is it possible that we can become gods?” My uncle Bob replied “It’s possible, just believe it.” My dad said: “But we are so far from it!”

My heart sang when I heard his words! My father had taught the false LDS doctrine that man could become a god for many years. Now his words were those of someone who was truly seeing himself as the sinful man that he really was. He was being humbled by God.

That was over fifteen years ago. Since that time, I have discovered a simple truth: Those who believe in Jesus are fully aware that they sin all the time–even though they try not to. Because of their own struggles with sin, they believe and understand the Words of Christ; that “there is none good but one, that is, God” (Mark 10:18). Believers in Christ know that only God is good. That is one reason they are so thankful that it is through faith alone that they are credited with Christ’s righteousness, just as Abraham was (Romans 4:20-5:1)

Humility is one characteristic of every person who has a living faith in Jesus. Humble sinners know how often they sin. They know that if their eternal destination depended upon anything they had to do, they would be doomed to spend eternity with Satan. They know that God loves them so much He sent a Savior to rescue them from their depraved life of sinfulness.

The Apostle Paul described the criteria God uses to choose His followers and why:

“Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence.” (1 Corinthians 1:25-31)

The very essence of LDS doctrine leads a person away from humility and towards pride. There is no better example of this than the belief that man is good enough to one day be a god himself! Gospel Principles Chapter 47 explains some of the blessings that will be given to those who obtain Exaltation through their obedience:

They will become gods (see D&C 132:20–23)…
They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge (see D&C 132:19–20). President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: “The Father has promised through the Son that all that he has shall be given to those who are obedient to His commandments.” (p.277)

Can you see how blasphemous this is in God’s eyes? To Him it would be the epitome of arrogance! The Prophet Isaiah testified that even our righteousness is like filthy rags: “But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.” (Isaiah 64:6).

When you believe that you can really become a God, it shows two things: (1) that you have no clue as to how amazing God really is, and (2) you have no idea how utterly sinful you are. As my father had come to know, you are so far from God’s holiness that you could NEVER become a god!

The Apostle Paul knew how sinful he was:
“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Romans 7:18-25)

The Apostle Paul did not despair because of how sinful he was. Instead, he spent his whole life thanking Jesus with a life dedicated to serving God! He knew that Jesus had already delivered him!

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41 Comments

  1. echoechoecho said,

    December 9, 2011 at 11:43 pm

    Another awesome post. Thank you.

  2. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    December 10, 2011 at 12:51 am

    thanks echo, few and far between. God willing, there will be more.

  3. ckuhrasch said,

    December 10, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    When they are good it doesn’t matter how often they appear! I hope you enjoy this blessed season!

  4. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    December 10, 2011 at 2:07 pm

    God’s blessings to you also as we celebrate the birth of our Lord and King!

  5. choosethechrist said,

    December 10, 2011 at 3:23 pm

    “Can you see how in God’s eyes, this is blasphemous and the epitome of arrogance?”

    The LDS can not see how truly blasphemous this is because they do not know the true character or nature of God. How heartbreaking!

    “Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.” (D&C 132:20.)

    This sounds to me like satan’s lie in the garden:

    Genesis 3
    1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
    2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”
    4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened,

    and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

    Eve believed the lie, “you will be like God”. No good came of that.

  6. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    December 10, 2011 at 4:01 pm

    choosethechrist,

    It is heartbreaking! It is so easy to be decieved. I used to believe this false teaching because I never tested the words of my prophets. I knew how sinful I was, but I thought I was the only one. Mormons who know how sinful they are don’t have anyone to turn to but their Bishop. And he has been set apart as their Judge.

    I love the fact that Jesus spent His time with the sinners–the prostitutes and drunkards. These people loved Him because they knew how much they needed Him to save them. Many people think they are not so bad because they don’t know that gossiping or envy or anger are just as bad as sexual sins. No Christian ever told me that they struggled with sin. I always thought that the Protestants were lazy and didn’t even try to follow God’s commands.

    I didn’t understand the motivation of love. I don’t have to try and keep God’s commands–I get to. I love Jesus more than anything and I don’t want to hurt Him. Thats why I hate it every time I sin, and boy, I sin all the time. Just like Paul, the good that I want to do-I don’t do. The evil that I don’t want to do-I do. Thanks be to Jesus who has delivered us from our sins!

  7. choosethechrist said,

    December 10, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    latterdaysaintwoman,

    Bless you for sharing and what a blessing you are to share!

    Luke 7:38
    38 As she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them.

    She wept because she knew how much she needed Him to save her, she was a sinner, a prostitute, with much to be forgiven for!

    This says so much. If I view myself as a “good” person, I am probably going to be less appreciative of what Jesus did for me. If I am honest with myself about my sins, then I am going to be more appreciative of what Jesus did for me. And you are so right, in God’s eyes a sin is a sin even the “small” ones like telling a lie or gossiping or coveting or getting angry with someone. It’s the little sins that are so common place that get all of us every day whether we want to admit it or not.

    Mormons need to know that they have a Savior to turn to (and it is not their bishop) and that they have accesss to Him always.

    Yes, Praise God for giving us a Savior!

  8. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    December 10, 2011 at 8:25 pm

    choosethechrist,

    Amen, and Amen!!!!!

  9. andrewiramiller said,

    December 21, 2011 at 9:24 pm

    So I guess you do no accept the Biblical teaching of deification?

  10. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    December 21, 2011 at 10:05 pm

    Hi andrewiramiller,

    You are going to have to explain what you mean by “the Biblical teaching of deification“. The word “deification” isn’t in the Bible.

    Thanks for your question,
    Becki

  11. andrewiramiller said,

    December 21, 2011 at 10:12 pm

    Deification is a term used by Bible scholars and theologians to convey the Biblical idea that through Jesus humans will be changed to be like God in the resurrection. Surely you have heard of this?

  12. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    December 22, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    Hi again andrewiramiller,

    You wrote:

    Deification is a term used by Bible scholars and theologians to convey the Biblical idea that through Jesus humans will be changed to be like God in the resurrection.”

    I checked in the LDS KJV Dictionary to find the official LDS definition of “deification” and “deify“. These words were not there. Neither did I find them in the LDS KJV Topical Guide.

    As far as “Bible scholars and theologians” I follow Christ’s example by digging into scripture to find God’s truth. I also obey His command to test those who claim to be God’s Prophets. Had God’s people during Christ’s time obeyed and trusted the leaders of their church, they would have completely missed the true Christ.

    By testing all who claim to teach God’s truth, I have come to trust only a handful of people and resources which claim to be “Bible scholars and theologians“. One such dictionary that I trust is The New Unger’s Bible Dictionary. Following Biblical truth, the words “deification” and “deify” were not in this dictionary.

    I did find a definition in a non-theological source–the American Heritage Dictionary. Here are the definitions for:

    Deification: “The condition of being deified.”

    Deify: “To make a god of; raise to the condition of a god. To worship or revere as a god.”

    This definition does agree with the LDS teachings of “exaltation” of which I wrote about in my blog post “Exaltation: Can You Really Become a God?” Here, I taught the LDS doctrine that humans will actually become a God. LDS prophets teach that there are many hundreds of thousands of gods; and that God himself once started out as man–just like human men on earth today.

    But the words you wrote claim a different teaching: “the Biblical idea that through Jesus humans will be changed to be like God“. So I need to understand which belief you are speaking about. Do you believe that humans will become actual gods, or do you believe they will become like god?

    Thanks again for your comment,
    Becki

  13. andrewimiller said,

    December 22, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    Becki,

    I believe what the Bible says.

    1. We can become “the sons of God” (1 John 3:1; Romans 8:14-18)

    2. We “shall be like him” (1 John 3:2)

    3. We are “heirs of God” and “joint-heirs” of Jesus Christ (Romans 8:14-18; Galatians 4:1-7)

    4. We shall possess “all things” (Rev 21:7; Romans 8:32, 1 Corinthians 3:21, 2 Corinthians 6:10)

    5. We shall be “one” with God and Christ (John 14:20; John 17:21-23)

    6. We will sit down on the Father’s “throne” (Revelation 3:21)

    7. We shall “be filled with all the fullness of God” (Ephesians 3:15-19)

    8. We shall have “power over the nations” even “as [Christ] received of [his] Father” (Revelations 2:26-27)

    9. We will receive the “image” of God (Romans 8:29; 1 Corinthians 15:49; 2 Corinthians 3:18; Colossians 3:10)

    10. We will receive the “divine nature” (2 Peter 1:4)

    11. We will be “rich” the way Christ was before he came to earth (2 Corinthians 8:9)

    12. We will have a “fulness” of deity like Christ (Colossians 2:9-10)

    The list could go on and on. So, tell me–if we are the sons of God, even are like God, heirs of God and joint-heirs with Jesus Christ, possess all things, are one with the Father and the Son, are filled with a fullness of God, have power over the nations like Christ has, have the image of God, the divine nature, are rich as Christ was and is, and have a fulness of deity like Christ, what would you call that other than deification?

    Maybe Jesus was right when he affirmed that we are in fact “gods” (John 10:34-36)?

    Maybe Paul was right when he said we were of the same genos as God (Acts 17:28-29)?

  14. choosethechrist said,

    December 23, 2011 at 10:15 am

    Starting with Acts 17:28-29, did Paul say we are of the same genos as God? It is known that Paul was quoting Aratus and that his entire message to the Athenians was focused on idolatry.

    “For we are indeed his offspring” Quoted from a poem (Phaenomena 1-5) written by Aratus who was schooled in Stoic philosophy .

    “The Stoic philosophers, mentioned in verse 18 as one party with whom Paul discourses, taught that Zeus is not a god in the form of a human being but a force which permeates all animate and inanimate things. This guiding principle, which unites all living things into one cosmos, they called Reason (Logos). Zeus, the Stoics believed, was not an immortal being, but a power without person. Accordingly Paul could be confident that these philosophers would concur with his statement that “God does not live in shrines made by man” (24). Paul tells the Athenians that God does not live in a dwelling as humans do, and that He cannot be represented in the form of man. The terminology which Paul employs in this verse is similar to that used by the Stoics, yet one should not conclude that Paul is preaching a purely Stoic philosophy. (2) One need only glance at Isaiah 42:5 and Exodus 20:11 to see that Paul’s depiction of God the Creator is thoroughly biblical. He merely uses the same language that the Stoics use in their description of the Zeus they believe controls the universe. The Stoics were correct in decrying the numerous temples, altars and statues in Athens. To support his position Paul quotes an authority the Athenian thinkers must have known: the Hellenistic poet Aratus. (3) Paul alludes to Aratus to convince his audience that God cannot be represented “by the art and imagination of man” (17:29). ”

    “Verses 24-31 of chapter 17 clarify Paul’s use of the quotation in declaring the gospel of repentance to the Athenians. When he cites the saying that man is God’s offspring, Paul employs the words in light of God’s self-revelation in the Old Testament. Mankind was created in the image and likeness of God, as revealed in Genesis 1 :26-27. Paul does not give the phrase “for we are indeed His offspring” the meaning which Stoics do; rather, he uses it to preach that God abhors idolatrous worship.”

    Who are the “offspring of God”?

    They are the offspring of God by creation through Adam.
    They are the offspring of God by adoption through new birth (born again through salvation in Christ). (Romans 8:14-17)

    Quotes were taken from: http://spindleworks.com/library/rfaber/aratus.htm

  15. choosethechrist said,

    December 23, 2011 at 11:20 am

    “Maybe Jesus was right when he affirmed that we are in fact “gods” (John 10:34-36)?”

    Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I
    said, you are gods’? If he called them gods, to whom the word
    of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say
    of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world,
    ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?”
    (John 10:34-36).

    To be able to understand these verses we have to start at the begining of John:

    En arche en ho logos, kai ho logos en pros ton theon, kai theos en ho logos,

    Notice that the Greek word logos, as seen from my previous post, means guiding principle, which unites all living things into one cosmos.

    “In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God” (John 1:1).

    John is laying a foundation. John says both that the word (Jesus) was with God and that the word (Jesus) was God.

    Which leads into the point of John 10:34-36:

    John repeatedly contrasted Jesus with His enemies who were furious with Him for making claims to deity. When they accused Jesus, Jesus’
    response to this charge of blasphemy is given in 10:34-38.

    Jesus responded to the charge of blasphemy with a quotation in
    John 10:34 from Psalm 82:6, “Has it not been written in your
    Law, ‘I said, you are gods’?”

    Jesus’ use of the Word of God has a legally binding and
    authoritative character – the Scriptures serve as the final
    court of appeal. This emphasis is particularly appropriate in
    John 10, in which an accusation (judgment) of breaking the Law
    (Lev. 24:16; see Jn 19:7) was made against Jesus, and in which
    Jesus appealed to a psalm that reveals the “judgment of unjust
    judges,” who had abused the Law.

    “Scripture cannot be broken” (v. 35b). This appeal to the
    authority of all Scripture (including the rather obscure
    statement from Psalm 82) reinforces the implications Jesus was
    drawing from Psalm 82. Jesus’ enemies are bound by what Jesus
    was about to say, since it was derived from the truth of an Old
    Testament incident.

    The quotation from Psalm 82:6 “I said you are gods'” refers to God’s representatives who were called “gods” who were civil magistrates or judges of God’s laws on Earth.

    It seems to me that Jesus is saying, you call yourself gods (judges of God’s laws) who are you to say I can’t call myself the Son of God?

    Does this point to deification? I think not!

  16. choosethechrist said,

    December 23, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    “So, tell me–if we are the sons of God, even are like God, heirs of God and joint-heirs with Jesus Christ, possess all things, are one with the Father and the Son, are filled with a fullness of God, have power over the nations like Christ has, have the image of God, the divine nature, are rich as Christ was and is, and have a fulness of deity like Christ, what would you call that other than deification?”

    We are the sons of God, created in His image through Adam. We are heirs of God and our inheritance is eternal life in the Kingdom of God when we put our faith in Jesus Christ as our savior. When we put our faith in Christ for our salvation we become one with the Father and Son because the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in us (think Trinity, they are all one). We are filled with a fullness of God, we are filled with the the Holy Spirit. We will have power over nations With Jesus Christ ruling as King over all the earth-we will be associated with him in his future glory.
    We will have a fulness of deity like Christ-For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily (Col 2:9)-again the Holy Spirit that dwells in us. We possess all things-we possess all that God has given to us. We will be rich as Christ was and is when we, because of our salvation, go to dwell in God’s kingdom for all eternity. The gift of eternal life with God the Father is what makes us rich.

    The passages used to justify the concept of deification as Biblical are all very good examples of what can happen when Bible verses are taken out of context and used to fit deviant doctrines such as deification.

  17. andrewimiller said,

    December 23, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    chosethechrist–I think you may need to brush up on your understanding of Christian doctrine. Here is a simple introduction to the idea that shows, although different from mainstream Christian thought, Mormon deification isn’t so far out there:

  18. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    December 23, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    andrewimiller,

    Choosethechrist gave you some very good answers, ones that she/he spent time working on. I don’t appreciate someone simply posting a link to answer a person’s hearfelt comments. In the future, I won’t post your comment if that is all you can come up with.

    I have a very debilitating disease and am having an extremely difficult day. I have some additional thoughts to add to choosethechrist’s, but will have to wait until I am feeling better to reply to you.

    Becki

  19. choosethechrist said,

    December 23, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    andrew,
    My understanding of Christian doctrine is quite sound. In early church history, the standard Christian term for salvation was theopoiesis or theosis, “being made God,” or deification. I don’t like to use the word deification because of what the LDS church has done with this term. Since this blog is about LDS beliefs, I have assumed that your use of the word deification refers to the LDS teachings on this. If I have assumed wrong, then feel free to clarify if your beliefs are LDS. In my mind there is a huge difference between becoming like Christ or possessing the attributes of God and becoming an actual god who procreates with mother god, has spirit babies, and lives on his own planet. I think the LDS church has taken some very generous liberties with the idea of deification. I would rather place my focus in this life on living as God wants me to live for Him right now instead of placing my focus on living to obtain a certain degree of glory and building my own kingdom in the next life.

  20. choosethechrist said,

    December 24, 2011 at 9:59 am

    I think the ideas that have been presented can be very confusing and I really want to make sure that no one gets the idea that Christian doctrines of theosis say that man can literally become a god.

    The doctrine of theosis has roots in a statement made by Irenaeus: he became “what we are, that He might bring us to be even what He is in Himself.” This really refers to our adoption as sons of God, not our divinisation. Irenaeus. Against Heresies 3.19.1. ANF 1, p. 448.

    Theosis became established in Christian thought with it’s theology originating from Alexandria and had Platonic and Neo-Platonic roots. Clement of Alexandria used the doctrine of theosis and his concept of the image of God is understood to be a Platonic archetype. Clement saw the image of God to be the intellect with renewal of the image (and deification) coming through education. This indicates that the doctrine of theosis is rooted in trying to combine Scripture and neo-Platonic philosophy or ideas.

    In the Protestant Church, we use the term sanctification rather than the term theosis and we understand this to be the power of the Holy Spirit working in our hearts that enables us to be like Christ.

    The Eastern Orthodox Church teaches a doctrine of theosis in which man takes on divine characteristics. Man does not become divine, but in Christ can partake of divine nature. This Church’s version of salvation restores God’s image in man.

    The LDS Church teaches a doctrine of exaltation which is a very literal divinization where humanity may not only achieve God’s holiness and perfection but also his essential divinity or godhood.

    When one takes a look at Christian Doctrines of theosis, it is very evident that these doctrines have nothing to do with the LDS ideas of exaltation and literally becoming a god.

    In addition, I find it very disturbing that most LDS people that I talk with or try to share ideas with immediately discount anything other than LDS views or teachings. I sincerly want to encourage the LDS to investigate what they are being told, look at things from non-LDS sources, before discounting historical Christian views.

  21. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    January 4, 2012 at 7:22 pm

    andrewimiller, you wrote:

    I believe what the Bible says. 1. We can become “the sons of God” (1 John 3:1; Romans 8:14-18)”

    I love being presented with what someone else believes when they give me Bible passages which support their words. It gives me an opportunity to dig into God’s Word to make sure that I firmly know God’s truth.

    In each statement of belief, you have some words that are in parenthesis showing that those words are from the Bible passages. What I discovered is that in many statements, you have changed the intended meaning of the Bible passage. As an example, lets look at your first statement. You wrote:

    1. “We can become “the sons of God” (1 John 3:1; Romans 8:14-18)”

    Look at the tense of both these references. You wrote that “we can become” “the sons of God” but neither of these passages say that. The tense of both passages is present tense: “we are the children of God “:

    14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. 18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.” (Romans 8:14-18)

    Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.” (1 John 3:1)

    Also, I am not really sure why you bring this thought up. Aren’t you LDS? LDS prophets claim that all people born on this earth are children of God. Do you believe this?

    If you do, how does your statement: “We can become the sons of God” support the LDS belief that man can become a god? Do you believe that every person born on earth will one day “become” a god?

    Please remember to be civil when answering comments, or your comment will not be posted. Thanks, Becki

  22. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    January 4, 2012 at 7:28 pm

    andrewimiller, you wrote:

    2. We “shall be like him” (1 John 3:2)”

    This passage and the one following are wonderful verses. Here they are:

    2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”

    3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.”

    Are you as pure as Jesus is? According to these passages, everyone that hath this hope in Jesus is as pure as He is!!!! These are present-tense words. When God looks at me, He sees a 100% pure and perfect human being. The only reason is because all my hope is in Jesus: His blood washed away all my sins.

    My hope is in Jesus! One day I will see Him as he is, just as John claims. And in some way, I will be like him. But, that does not mean I will be a God. This passage does not say you can become a god.

    I can let the Bible interpret itself by turning to the words of Isaiah. God’s Prophet assures me that the Apostle John was not claiming that we could become a god:

    Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.” Isaiah 43:10-11

    Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.” Isaiah 44:6

  23. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    January 4, 2012 at 7:33 pm

    andrewimiller, you wrote:

    3. We are “heirs of God” and “joint-heirs” of Jesus Christ (Romans 8:14-18; Galatians 4:1-7)”

    I love these passages and I agree with what you wrote and what these passages teach. Yes, we are heirs of God.

    But that doesn’t mean that we can become a god. If it did, then according to LDS teachings every person would become a god, since all people (according to LDS teaching) are children of God and heirs of God.

    Here are the passages:

    14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. 18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.” (Romans 8:14-18)

    1Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; 2But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. 3Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: 4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.” (Galatians 4:1-7)

  24. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    January 4, 2012 at 7:41 pm

    andrewimiller, you wrote:

    I believe what the Bible says… 4. We shall possess “all things” (Rev 21:7; Romans 8:32, 1 Corinthians 3:21, 2 Corinthians 6:10)”

    Wow, you are really messed up here. You list four different Bible passages, claiming that they say “We shall possess all things“? But not even one of these passages says that. If you really believe what the Bible says, why do you feel the need to change it?

    Here’s the Revelation verse. It says we “shall inherit all things“:

    He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.” (Rev 21:7)

    The Apostle John wrote these words. He is also the one who testified that we overcome by believing that Jesus is the Son of God:

    For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?” (1 John 5:4-5)

    If you believe what the Bible says, then according to LDS doctrine will every person who believes in Jesus become a god?
    __________________________________

    Here’s the Romans passage in context. Here Paul testifies that God will “freely give us all things“:

    28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 31What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?” (Romans 8:28-32)

    According to LDS teachings, will God freely give us the gift of becoming a god?
    ___________________________

    Here’s the 1 Corinthians passage in context and it says “all things are your’s“–present tense.

    20And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. 21Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your’s; 22Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your’s; 23And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s.” (1 Corinthians 3:20-23)

    When Paul wrote these words, they already had “all things“? So does that mean the Corinthians were already gods?
    ______________________

    Here’s the 2 Corinthians passage in context and it says “as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.”

    1We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain. 2(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.) 3Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed: 4But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses, 5In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings; 6By pureness, by knowledge, by long suffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned, 7By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, 8By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; 9As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed; 10As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.” (2 Corinthians 6:1-10)

    Once again, this is present tense.

  25. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    January 4, 2012 at 7:54 pm

    andrewimiller, you wrote:

    I believe what the Bible says… 5. We shall be “one” with God and Christ (John 14:20; John 17:21-23)”

    Both these references in John are speaking about present tense–happening while the world was still going on. Not sometime after Judgment Day when the hypothetically “really good people” somehow attain God-hood.

    All who believe in Christ are already one with God and Christ. The moment the Holy Spirit brings a person to faith, God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit all dwell in that persons heart. If you read the John 14:20 passage in context, you can see what “At that day” refers to. Jesus was speaking of the day of Pentecost— the day when the Comforter, the Holy Ghost appeared. The John 17 reference is speaking of those who read the Bible and believe through Christ’s Apostle’s words:

    16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.” (John 14:16-20)

    “20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.” (John 17:20-23)

    Notice the reason why the believers would be one with God and Christ:

    that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”

  26. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    January 4, 2012 at 8:00 pm

    andrewimiller, you wrote:

    I believe what the Bible says… 6. We will sit down on the Father’s “throne” (Revelation 3:21)”

    Again, you are changing God’s Word! This does not say we will “sit down on the Father’s “throne”. It says that Jesus will grant all who “overcometh” to sit with Him on His throne.

    Here is the passage–from the Bible:

    21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.” (Revelation 3:21)

    Remember, we overcome by believing that Jesus is the Son of God. If this is your proof that some can become a god, then once again, you would have to say that all who believe in Jesus will become a god.

  27. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    January 4, 2012 at 8:04 pm

    andrewimiller, you wrote:

    I believe what the Bible says… 7. We shall “be filled with all the fullness of God” (Ephesians 3:15-19)”

    This is just like number 5–it’s present tense. It doesn’t say we shall be filled“. Christ dwells in our heart “by faith“. When we fathom all the love that Christ has for us, it is then that we might be filled with all the fullness of God. Reading this with other verses shows that the fullness of God dwells in every believers’ heart:

    14For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. 20Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us” (Ephesians 3:14-20)

  28. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    January 4, 2012 at 8:07 pm

    andrewimiller, you wrote:

    8. We shall have “power over the nations” even “as [Christ] received of [his] Father” (Revelations 2:26-27)”

    “26And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. 28And I will give him the morning star.” (Revelations 2:26-28)

    Does having “power over the nations” somehow mean you can become a god?

  29. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    January 4, 2012 at 8:17 pm

    andrewimiller, you wrote:

    I believe what the Bible says… 9. We will receive the “image” of God (Romans 8:29; 1 Corinthians 15:49; 2 Corinthians 3:18; Colossians 3:10)”

    Once again, you wrote “We will receive the “image” of God“–but not one of these references states that.

    The Romans passage in context says ” to be conformed to the image of his Son“:

    28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 31What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?” (Romans 8:28-31)

    Notice what Paul’s conclusion is? ” If God be for us, who can be against us?” How can he even possibly be implying that we can one day become a god ourselves?
    ______________

    Here’s the 1 Corinthians passage. You claimed it said: “We will receive the “image” of God.”

    The Apostle Paul wrote: “we shall also bear the image of the heavenly“.

    But he also wrote “we have borne the image of the earthy.” So if you think he means we can become a god, does he also claim that at one time we used to be an earth?

    Read his words in context.

    45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” (1 Corinthians 15:45-50)

    ___________________________

    Here’s the 2 Corinthians passage. You claimed it said: “We will receive the “image” of God.”

    Once again Paul is speaking present tense. The moment we come to faith, Jesus gives us His righteousness. When God looks at us, He doesn’t see our sins, He sees Christ’s perfection. Amazing, but true.

    17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.” (2 Corinthians 3:13-18)

    _______________________________

    Here’s the Colossians passage in context. You claimed it said: “We will receive the “image” of God.”

    Again, Paul is speaking present tense–right now. When we come to faith, we “have put on the new man“. If we believe in Christ, He is in us.

    9Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 10And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: 11Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.” (Colossians 3:9-11)

  30. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    January 4, 2012 at 8:20 pm

    andrewimiller, you wrote:

    I believe what the Bible says… 10. We will receive the “divine nature” (2 Peter 1:4)

    Again, you change God’s word. You claim Peter says “we will receive the divine nature“.

    But Peter didn’t write that. Instead, he claimed “that by these [God’s promises] ye might be partakers of the divine nature“.

    Reading in context:

    3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.” (2 Peter 1:3-4)

    Notice that it is because of God’s power and His promises that we can be partakers of the divine nature.

  31. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    January 4, 2012 at 8:22 pm

    andrewimiller, you wrote:

    I believe what the Bible says… 11. We will be “rich” the way Christ was before he came to earth (2 Corinthians 8:9)”

    Again, you change God’s word. Why do you feel you need to keep doing so? Isn’t God’s truth enough for you? The passage does not say we will be rich “the way Christ was before he came to earth “. Here is the passage:

    For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.” (2 Corinthians 8:9)

  32. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    January 4, 2012 at 8:27 pm

    andrewimiller, you wrote:

    I believe what the Bible says… 12. We will have a “fulness” of deity like Christ (Colossians 2:9-10)”

    How can you claim to “believe what the Bible says” and yet change it so it fits into your beliefs! The passage does not say “We will have a “fulness” of deity like Christ“.

    It does say that all the fulness of the Godhead dwells bodily in Christ–present tense.

    It does say that we “are complete in him“–present tense.

    Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;” (Colossians 2:8-14)

  33. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    January 4, 2012 at 8:32 pm

    andrewimiller, you wrote:

    I believe what the Bible says… Maybe Jesus was right when he affirmed that we are in fact “gods” (John 10:34-36)?”

    Did Jesus say that we are in fact “gods“? Jesus said “Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?”

    Read His words in context. He is speaking to unbelieving Jews who wanted to stone Him for blasphemy–for claiming that He was God. Did Jesus tell these unbelieving Jews that mortal men were gods? Or was He using scripture to confound their blasphemy?

    Notice that he uses the present tense, saying “I said ye are gods?”

    Are you a god–right now? Does the LDS Church teach that man can be a god while they are still living in their mortal life?

    The answer is no to both questions. So unless you believe something other than what your church teaches, this passage does not support your LDS beliefs:

    The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?” (John 10:33-36)

  34. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    January 4, 2012 at 8:46 pm

    andrewimiller, you wrote:

    I believe what the Bible says… Maybe Jesus was right when he affirmed that we are in fact “gods” (John 10:34-36)? …was right when he said we were of the same genos as God (Acts 17:28-29)?”

    First of all, Jesus was not the one who said any of these words in Acts. It was the Apostle Paul.

    Secondly, if we use your interpretation, then that would mean every person who was ever born would become a god. They couldn’t help but doing so because they were of the same genos as God.

    Read the passages in context! What Paul was doing was sharing his faith with people who worshipped dead stones–idols. In contrasting the living God to dead stones, he used words familiar to them, words of one of their poets: “as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

    Paul used these words to help them grasp the difference between their dead gods and the One True and Living God.

    Here are the passages in context:

    Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry… “22Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars’ hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. 23For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. 24God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25Neither is worshipped with men’s hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; 26And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; 27That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: 28For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. 29Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.” (Acts 17:16, 22-29)

  35. ckuhrasch said,

    January 4, 2012 at 10:53 pm

    Thank you for taking the time to consider the scriptures and share your witness of Christ from them…it is beautiful!

  36. wyomingwilly said,

    January 5, 2012 at 11:45 am

    Choosethechrist said, “When one takes a look at Christian Doctrine of theosis, it is very evident that these doctrines have nothing to do with the LDS ideas of exaltation and literally becoming a god.”

    I could’nt agree more. There just is’nt enough evidence in 2 Pt1:4, for example, to help create the doctrine of sinful man becoming an Almighty God and being worshiped as such by those of His children in His future world/kingdom. [“the LDS idea”]

    Latterdaysaintwoman has articulated clearly the truth of what Jesus’ apostles taught on this subject, so it seems there’s the choice what those apostles taught or embrace what Mormon apostles taught, since the two are not remotely the same . May God give strength to those Mormons who are seeking the truth about a true relationship with Him.

  37. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    January 6, 2012 at 7:37 pm

    wyomingwilly,

    Hi, good to have you here and thanks for your comment. I agree with you about Choosethechrist’s comments. It is a God-send to have such a Christian witness share their knowledge of Biblical truth here on my blog. God’s blessings,

    Becki

  38. wyomingwilly said,

    January 6, 2012 at 11:49 pm

    Hi Becky, It’s a blessing to see you reach out to the Mormon people.
    These are precious people who have been detoured by their
    prophets and apostles into embracing a false gospel, and this
    doctrine of Mormon males becoming Almighty Gods is the most
    egregious doctrine in their gospel. My wife was once a member of
    a false prophet led organization with exclusive claims of authority
    very similar to that of Mormon leaders, so I kind of have a burden
    for those who follow such false prophets/apostles. I tip my hat to you
    and those here who love the Mormon people enough to remind them
    to “beware ” —–Matt 7:15 WW

  39. latterdaysaintwoman said,

    January 7, 2012 at 2:50 pm

    wyomingwilly,

    Oh yes, they are a precious people–my Mom and Dad (he has passed on) my brothers and sisters, nieces and nephews, aunts and uncles, cousins… they are very precious people indeed! I know the struggles because I have lived them myself.

    I was married in the Salt Lake Temple and spent most of my life trying to gain forgiveness for my sins–never knowing that my Savior had already won them for me! The moment I heard the truth that my sins had all been washed away with His blood at the Atonement, I fell in love! My Lord is the love of my life and that’s also why I share His truth with my people–the Mormons.

    God’s blessings,
    Becki

  40. choosethechrist said,

    January 8, 2012 at 5:25 pm

    I too am surrounded by LDS people and my heart breaks for them everyday. I pray that they will come to know the truth.

    If anyone is interested, I came across this 5 part series that deals with orthodox theosis vs LDS exaltation:

    This is part 5, http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2011/11/did-joseph-smith-restore-theosis-part-five-early-church-fathers-and-joseph-smith%e2%80%99s-doctrine-of-exaltation/

    God Bless you and this blog Becki

  41. March 9, 2012 at 6:09 pm

    […] Causing Stress1Know Him as Daddy | My Ministry for the Lord!17 January 2012 | MormonVoices1Exaltation: Can You Really Become a God? « Latter Day Saint Woman […]


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